Copy And

48. What your copywriters want you to know about A.I.

• Samantha Burmeister • Episode 48

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0:00 | 34:30

In this episode, Samantha sits down with Kaili Meyer of Reveal Studio Co, a website copywriter and sales expert, to talk about what's working in business right now: connection, community, and being unmistakably yourself, even as AI reshapes how people search and buy.

Sam and Kaili dig into the weird contradiction of this moment. Every trend report says people crave human connection more than ever, and that's exactly the part business owners are outsourcing to AI first. They talk through what it means to write for AI recommendation engines (not just Google), why "machine readability" matters more than keyword stuffing, and how tools like Claude and ChatGPT are quietly learning your business the same way a friend would, if you let them.

Kaili also breaks down the site audit tool she built to score websites on sales psychology, voice, and AI recommendation readiness, and shares what she's seeing go wrong on client sites over and over again.


What You'll Learn

  • Why connection and community are outperforming automation right now, and what that means for your content plan
  • The difference between using AI as a tool versus using it as a crutch, and how listeners can spot the difference in their own work
  • Why AI models are learning to recommend you based on your consistency across platforms (not just your keywords)
  • The "boring" structural fixes most websites are missing that keep AI from understanding (and recommending) them
  • How the buyer's journey has already shifted before someone ever lands on your site


Resources Mentioned

Connect with me:

Nomad Copy Services → sales pages, emails, websites, and more.

Get on my calendar → if you’d like me to write your sales copy for you!

Free Opt-In Copy Bot → Write high-converting opt-in pages in minutes

Watch episodes with subtitles on my YouTube 

Nomad Copy Agency writes copy that CONVERTS for service-based businesses. Inquire about done-for-you services here.

Sam @ Nomad Copy

Hello and welcome back to Copy and, the marketing podcast where I teach you how to write copy that sounds like you but converts better. Today I'm joined by Kaili Meyer of Reveal Studio Co. She is also a website copywriter and sales expert, and we are going to yap it out about all things sales copy. Kaili, welcome to

Kaili

Hi, thank you so much for having me

Sam @ Nomad Copy

Kaili, I'm gonna start off with just a real hard-hitting

Kaili

Let's do it.

Sam @ Nomad Copy

What's working in your business right

Kaili

Ooh, connections. I think caring a lot about your community, and I think this word community gets tossed around a ton, but just like being human and checking in on your people, caring about your clients beyond the exchange of money and service. I've found, relationships I think are really like the number one driver in business, at least for me right now

Sam @ Nomad Copy

Are you doing anything unique to reach out to your people and stay connected?

Kaili

I have some automated things that I've done from the beginning that I love and that got a lot of, claps. I send half birthday emails where I celebrate everyone's half birthday with them, and a lot of times people don't even know it was their half birthday. Yeah, I think it's fun. When somebody inquires and then actually becomes a client, I always figure out their birthday, so they get birthday emails as well. But then we calculate what their half birthday is and send them like a, "Hey, I bet you didn't know it was your half birthday. Here's... 50% off something to like to celebrate the half. So doing that. I always do handwritten cards to every client when I'm done, and I think it just shows, she cares and my handwritten card is not, "Hey, it's Kaili at Reveal. Thanks for your project." I try to touch on things that, they shared about their life, whether it was like they were moving into a new home, their husband was getting a new job, they had a new kid. Like I try to keep tabs on the things that make them human. I think it's really easy to just reach out as the service pro, which I still think is important, but I try to showcase like, hey, I care about you as a person more than I do about you as my client

Sam @ Nomad Copy

Yeah, I love that. And you and I both as copywriters spend a lot of time in other people's businesses. So connection and community is working really well for you. What about for your clients? What's working well for the rest of the world?

Kaili

People who are really utilizing their unique approach, their brain, their strategy. I think with this, era of AI that we are in, I think it's really cool that it gives us accessibility to certain tasks and things and knowledge maybe that we didn't have before. But I think that there's now this really unique gap for people who don't need that tool to fill a strategy gap or a knowledge gap. It's helping them in other ways, and then they're showing up with their brain, and I think that's really making a big difference for, especially service providers

Sam @ Nomad Copy

Ooh, let's dig into that a little bit because I feel like we've talked about on this podcast before the difference between using AI as a tool, and you and I have had this conversation before too, like AI as a tool versus AI as a

Kaili

Mm-hmm.

Sam @ Nomad Copy

And so people who are really leaning into, and this is what I'm hearing you say, like using their brain on what? 'Cause I think there is a space for automating and delegating out to, you know, a robot or a system

Kaili

Well, what's really interesting to me is how quickly everybody started implementing AI in marketing. And it's so funny because if we look at consumer trends all the way from like solo service providers to like large businesses, connection, community, humanism is like the thing right now. We even just saw, if you've been watching, we're recording this at the end of June, Cannes,

Sam @ Nomad Copy

yeah,

Kaili

Cannes Festival. Yeah, I'm not entirely sure. Clearly I wasn't there. When they're talking about the trends that they're seeing, they're literally saying, you know, it used to be who can get invited to the restaurant reservation, and this year the biggest thing was like, who can get invited to the house parties? Like who do you know intimately enough to come into their home space? And so we're seeing this trend of like connection and being human being the most important thing, and then marketing content copy where you're having the biggest opportunity to showcase that humanness and to connect, people are outsourcing it. And so I think the area that I'm seeing it in that's positively impacting business the most is when people are still creating content with their voice and I love a script as much as the next person, but right now with so many people doing face-to-cam video to capitalize on being more human and having connection, you can tell who scripted it using AI because now they're just vocalizing the written tells that we had, right? It's been fascinating to see how it's like we're so close. We've caught the trend, we know what's working, and then we're like, but what if to connect we just are less human about it? And the people who aren't doing that I do think are seeing traction in different ways, but I think the people who are like building thought capital from their actual thoughts, sharing stories that I guess what Google would wanna say non-commodity content. Sharing content that like only you could have written because it's yours, I think those are really successful creators and business owners that we're seeing right now

Sam @ Nomad Copy

Which is so funny to me because it's literally what copywriters have been saying, creatives, all marketers have been saying

Kaili

Forever

Sam @ Nomad Copy

People want more of you. Quit doing just, a post even five years ago when static posts were the thing. That's what the algorithm promoted, and it would just be this, Canva document or Canva image with, a real zinger on it, and then you're expected to read the caption and, comment whatever for ManyChat to send you an automation. We've been begging people for years to create that human connection. And like you said, it's just interesting that that's the first thing that people outsource when community and connection are the number one business builders. that's not a trend. That's like, that's...

Kaili

That's gonna be the fact in 10, 15, 40 years.

Sam @ Nomad Copy

Yeah. Even, so for our listeners, Kaili and I went to the same school at different times for different degrees. So were we ever in the same room? Maybe, but not at the same time. And when I was in school, I took an advertising class, and they were talking about how many touches you need to close a sale. And basically, the whole premise of the idea of touches is that the more potent you make them, the less time you need to close a sale. So if you're out, let's say it's summertime, you're at the fair, you're thirsty, and there is a new water. Like, I remember when

Kaili

Oh,

Sam @ Nomad Copy

first came up, what, three, four years ago. And it's like you're gonna try a new product for the first time right then and there because the touch is potent. They know who you are. They know their demographic. You're hot. You're sweaty. You need a can of water. Boom, they've got you on a can of water. Those less potent touches are gonna be the ones that are less human, are the ones where you're getting ads, you're seeing it in magazines, in coupons if you go through your junk mail ever. You need more touches to be able to close a sale. People are begging for a human connection, and we're going for volume rather than

Kaili

Yep.

Sam @ Nomad Copy

I

Kaili

Yeah

Sam @ Nomad Copy

the age of AI. But, so yeah, people want more of your brain, but then everybody's like, "Well, great, how can we still shortcut this? How can we put it into AI?" So my argument would be that people are looking for consistency in your voice rather than they don't necessarily need you on every single time you post

Kaili

Mm-hmm.

Sam @ Nomad Copy

I know you have opinions about, AI and what AI is looking for too in that layer of consistency. I've seen you talk about this. Do you wanna take a minute to talk about consistency?

Kaili

So I think a lot of people have understood that we need to have consistency across website pages, right? The way you read your home page, the voice. If I go from home to about to services, it shouldn't feel like I'm all of a sudden having a conversation with or being spoken to by three different people. And what's cool, but just adds a layer of depth of thinking when coming up with your content plan is now these tools, so like Google and LLM, so like Claude, ChatGPT, Gemini, have the ability to scan every public-facing account or platform of yours. So for example, it's gonna crawl your website to figure out who you are, what your point of view is, what your voice is. If your Instagram is associated with your website and your Google Business page is associated with your website, it's gonna check those as well and try to come up with the appropriate way to summarize you, the appropriate type of person to recommend you to. And so having consistency across anything that's public facing is really important. And so the area of caution, I guess, I would give business owners who are utilizing AI as like a big content creator is if somebody read your website and read your point of view there, read your non-commodity content there, and then went to your Instagram and then went to your LinkedIn, is it fully consistent or is there this like the way you speak about maybe your approach, how you define strategy, what have you, the same? Not just in terms of like tone of voice, but like are you using the same language? Are you framing it the same way? Can I look at them separately and know it's still you? And a lot of people, from what I've seen, fewer people are using AI to write their entire website than the people who are using AI to handle Instagram and to handle Threads and to handle LinkedIn. And so I think they're just creating these micro gaps where when somebody goes into Google, especially as Google is shifting to be more AI powered and says, "Hey, I need a really good website copywriter. I'm thinking I want them to be somebody who has experience in this area, who, uses this approach," it's gonna be scanning all your stuff and you have to hope that it says, "Oh, this is who this person needs." And if you're not consistent, it's gonna go, well, I thought when I read the website, but then I went to the Instagram and now I'm like, I'm not so sure."

Sam @ Nomad Copy

Yeah. Yeah. I, have a client who has an accessibility tool, and we wrote her website to say it's like spell check for accessibility. And it's this really great Chrome plugin. You click the button and it scans your website or it scans your email and says, "Hey, your, font size is too small. It's this, it's that." But she knows that the name of her product and the technical jargon just isn't gonna work, so when she says on all platforms, and she has it in her pinned posts and she talks about it when she's on podcasts, that it's, spell check for accessibility, she's saying that everywhere, and it's something that's quick and memorable. So I think it's more about, too, not just saying... 'Cause nobody's gonna search and be like, "Who's a brand designer that has a really clean voice, brand voice, da, da, da?" They're not searching for brand voice. They're searching for the things that you're

Kaili

Yeah

Sam @ Nomad Copy

and someone could argue that that's your message versus your copy and whatnot. But you're right. It has to be consistent across all platforms. And I saw somebody say the other day, and I haven't looked into this, maybe I will have by the time I hit publish on this in August, but, that it's also learning to crawl your emails. Do you know anything about that?

Kaili

From my understanding, yes, it does crawl your email. I don't think it's utilizing it the same way that it would utilize your Instagram content. When it's crawling your email, from my understanding as of today, it's doing so that it can prioritize in the inbox, it can put it into buckets, but it has to be public-facing. Just like 10 years ago, SEO was like whatever is indexed and crawlable and, Google knows exists, and then Google started bringing in other platforms as well. Your emails aren't public-facing, and so I would be shocked if it's utilizing that in that way

Sam @ Nomad Copy

Right. yeah. Like I know Kit just released its MCP. I know Flodesk has something similar where you can also share emails. I know Flodesk has a really easy button for this. I don't know about the rest of them, but you can share. So if I was like, "Kaili, I'm not on your list. What did you send last week?" You can send me a link to that email without me being in the email. So that's the only way that I know of that it would be able to really

Kaili

Right

Sam @ Nomad Copy

an email because it is sent to a private platform. But yeah, you have to be talking about more or less the same things in the same way across your blog, your substack, your website, your social media,

Kaili

Yeah

Sam @ Nomad Copy

But yeah, I think there's two sides of it, so that people can search via AI or non-AI search, but also so that your freaking people understand you in the same way. And if you're following an algorithm that's gonna write it all for you, then you're just gonna be a moving

Kaili

Yeah

Sam @ Nomad Copy

that people aren't gonna be able to really nail down who you are, what you do, and what makes

Kaili

And I've been talking more about is how LLMs, again, Claude, Chat, Gemini, how they function slightly differently when it comes to recommendations than Google. So traditionally, historically, you go to Google, you type in a keyword query, and then it's gonna be crawling websites to figure out, whose website is matching with these keywords in the most relevancy. Well, an LLM is doing that and also searching for fit. And so if somebody has used Claude to talk about their business, their business problems, their favorite clients, their favorite people to work with, their LLM is learning all of this information about them that then when they go, "I need a designer," it knows more about that person than Google does when you go to Google and you just type in brand designer for copywriter. It's going to be asking itself not just who aligns with this query, but who or what do I think the best fit for this specific person is. And if you don't have a very clear and consistent point of view, if you're not clear and consistent about your process, your outcomes, your case studies, how you like to work, it's not gonna know who to recommend you to, and it might just summarize you instead or just, never surface your website as a clickable option

Sam @ Nomad Copy

Yeah. Yeah. Yes, and the way that people are searching is totally different than it used to be. It used to just be like, "Car wash near me." And now it's like, "What's a car wash that is big enough that it's not gonna, like, mess up my

Kaili

Yeah. Conversational prompts

Sam @ Nomad Copy

Clearly get my car washed a lot, and clearly drive a really big truck.

Kaili

Huge

Sam @ Nomad Copy

It's conversational the way that people are interacting with it. That I'm going on a road trip, and if I were to search, like, "Landmarks between Grand Rapids and Detroit," I'm gonna get something very different than, like, "My partner and I are going on a road trip. This is what we enjoy. We would not like to be involved in any craft breweries, and it'll be a Saturday, so I need to make sure everything that you send me is open." We're gonna get a different output, but we're also putting a different input into it. So what's your prescription, then, for people who are writing their own copy, but also, like, messaging themselves online? How do you, land that without being just, like, weird keyword stuffing, content?

Kaili

Because it's not actually about keywords. You still need to consider, like, foundational SEO work, so, like, keywords still have to be there. If you are a sales and website copywriter for a specific type of industry or business size, like, those words need to be on your website, it's not about that, though. It's about a couple of really boring things. So it's about structure. It's called machine readability. When a machine is going to read your site and determine what you're saying and who you would be a good fit for, it needs to be able to understand how your site functions. One of the boring things people have to take into consideration is, the user journey, the buyer journey, the headers that you're using, the literal words on your CTA buttons. It used to be, and it still can be, we just have to be a little bit more careful, it used to be that you made the words on your CTA button so fun and so, like, "Heck yeah, that's me." When AI is reading your website and it says, "Oh, found a button. Button says, 'Heck yeah, that's me,'" it might not have any idea, what So what am I supposed to do here? So, number one is your structure and the way that you're building out the copy on your site. Number two is non-commodity content. So, just make sure that there is copy and content on your website that only you could have written. If I can slide it over to your competitor and somebody else could have feasibly said it, that's not what we want your entire website to be. So this might be like if you have a signature approach, if you, there's some branded vocabulary that you use. The client you were saying, spell check for accessibility, like, that's essentially non-commodity content. It's gonna get attached to you. So it's caring about that, and it's being yourself. It's showing your personality, your voice as obviously, like, the brand personality. But for a lot of founder-facing brands, the personality is very similar to theirs. So it's, showing up with that. And then honestly, 99% of it is just maintaining the same copywriting best practices that copywriters have been telling you to do for decades.

Sam @ Nomad Copy

And that was my next question has the way that you write copy for yourself and for your clients changed since the advent... We'll go back three years when everybody started using ChatGPT, and even in the last, three or four months since Google changed their search algorithms

Kaili

I think it's changed a little bit. There are other things, there's like smaller things I'm checking for now, caring about a little bit more about finding the balance between asking ourselves, okay, if Google AI summarizes this, or Claude or Chat summarizes this, how can I find a way to add a one phrase or a paragraph somewhere that hopefully it pulls that instead of like trying to piece it together? How to balance that with how do I still showcase my client's personality and what they do differently? I don't think it's changed a ton. As somebody who, I mean, I've been writing websites for eight years at this point, and started learning about and utilizing AI three years ago. So for me, I don't think there's been anything that's like, wow, that's so drastic, but there are little things that I now ask myself. First and foremost, if a human lands on this website, are they gonna know what the who, what, when, where, why, how, and are they gonna be able to function on this and navigate it appropriately? Second question, and are they gonna be able to catch a vibe? Like, are they gonna know if this is the right service provider or product, whatever for me? Second question, if a machine reads this, is it gonna know how to utilize this page, what it's here for? Great. And then my third question is, Where somebody was at in the buyer journey when they got on your website is starting to change. Now, if they've already asked AI to do the preliminary like checks on the thing, like what you were saying, where you kinda gave it more of the parameters, when they land on your website, they're really looking for like two or three things. Number one, they're gonna verify that the information, 'cause AI makes mistakes, Google makes mistakes. They're gonna verify the information they got was correct, but number two, they're already further in the buying journey. They already almost feel like a friend recommended this pr- And now like, "Okay, well, Sam told me I can trust this photographer, but let me like go just do my due diligence." And so we used to, have to do a little bit more education on the homepage, maybe on the services page, just like more copy. And I think we are maybe entering an era where we don't have to do that so much. It's still important, especially in certain industries, but I just don't think as much

Sam @ Nomad Copy

Yeah, and I think for myself, as I've been writing, I've almost been having

Kaili

Mm-hmm

Sam @ Nomad Copy

with writing copy since we know how AI is affecting search because it gets to be, so much more conversational, where we still have to fit those keywords in, but it feels like you're entering at a different buyer's point in the buyer's journey or in the funnel. But also it really drives home the importance of getting things in client voice and getting that feedback from clients so that you can use client voice because how they are talking about our copy is exactly how they're going to be searching for copy

Kaili

Mm-hmm.

Sam @ Nomad Copy

So yeah, I think it's been more

Kaili

Yeah

Sam @ Nomad Copy

even though I would say for myself, I agree that I don't know that it's changed the way that I write copy. I'm still keeping keywords and buyer's journey and, the hierarchy in mind, but it's like, If we're gonna pretend that we're talking to computers, we might as well have a little fun

Kaili

I would argue it's been more fun writing for AI recommendation than it was trying to optimize for traditional SEO

Sam @ Nomad Copy

tell me more.

Kaili

I think kind of what you're saying, it's just less about... So like if you were trying to hijack 8, 9, 10 years ago SEO, you did it in such a boring way. Like, the people who won at SEO really was, like, keywords. We saw the advent of, blogs, but really blogs became less about connecting, less about, sharing your general POV, sharing stories, and more about this is a tool to improve SEO." And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but I think it put a lot of us in positions where it was, less about I'm excited to write this, I'm excited to share this, I actually think this is relevant, and more about, damn, I'm really trying to, rank for these couple keywords and these phrases, and so I need to, get some content out about it. And I think, like anything else, you figure out what, the rules are to win, and then you say, just like people are doing with AI, "All right, so how can I do that but, faster and, more efficient?" And I guess with,

Sam @ Nomad Copy

Mm-hmm

Kaili

with the non-technical sides of AI recommendation, the answer to that is, like, be so yourself on every platform that nobody else sounds like you and nobody else is saying the things you're saying, and we'll know then who to recommend you to.

Sam @ Nomad Copy

Which feels so funny that that's a full circle moment, that by computers kind of ruling the world, we're forced into being more human and having these standout opinions rather than just being like, "About Kaili, our signature

Kaili

Yeah

Sam @ Nomad Copy

that it's forcing us to be more unique

Kaili

Yeah

Sam @ Nomad Copy

to compete with other humans who are using robots

Kaili

I agree. Very strange. But it's kind of fun. The other thing I will say, this is kind of like random, that's been interesting as a copywriter, is the rollercoaster we've been on, where it was like, "Oh my God, is AI coming for your job? Okay, wait a minute." Like, I think everyone had like a little moment of, "Oh, oh snap, oh snap, oh snap. Like, is it gonna come for marketers and creatives?" And then, like, you turn and you look at all of the AI companies, and it's like the people that they're paying some of the most money to are copywriters and marketers and communication specialists. So you're like, "Okay, well, if the companies that created these tools aren't using them in this way, then, like, maybe we do have a job." And then you start to realize, like, oh, actually copy is like one of the most important, impactful tools to succeed in business right now, even more so. And so I think it's just been like this rollercoaster of like figuring out, like, what does this new tool mean for marketing, copywriting, business, and that's been like an interesting thing to experience as well

Sam @ Nomad Copy

Where do you think we're at on the rollercoaster?

Kaili

If I had to answer that right now, I do think there's gonna be a moment of, settling, and then I think, one of two things is gonna happen. Either they're bamboozling us and they are actually, creating models based on all of this information, and they're going to eventually try to replace or get to a place where they can replace, the need for the type of work we do, because I don't even think it's just can they get a chat model to write like a human? I don't think it's that. I think it's like can they change the fundamental platforms of consumerism enough that what we do isn't relevant anymore? Not even because a machine can do it better, but because the way we find businesses and connect with businesses changes, and our need for businesses changes. I think that's an option. And I think a secondary and potentially equally, relevant option is we just stop using models in this way. We get to a place where it's like, "Hey, you guys, we really picked the lowest hanging fruit, and we've tried to run with it," when ultimately AI's power lies in these other things that we never, like, we were not thinking about. And a couple years from now, we'll be like, "Remember when everyone was so convinced that their Claude carousels were really good?" And we're gonna just be like, No one's using it in that way anymore."

Sam @ Nomad Copy

Yeah, yeah. Right when we first opened, we said it's wild that people went to using AI for

Kaili

Mm-hmm.

Sam @ Nomad Copy

Where do you think people should be using AI more?

Kaili

I don't think it's fair to say what I think other people should be doing. I think people need to, do what's right for them, but if I was, advising somebody, if somebody came to me and was like, "How do I use it?" I would use it more as an operating tool. I would ask yourself, what things in your business, don't currently require a human touch in the sense of, yeah, maybe a human currently has to go in and, do the buttons and the admin work and the stuff that you're like, "This sucks." But it's not, like, if a machine did it, it's not gonna take away from the quality experience. It's not gonna take away from your joy, your creativity. It's not gonna take away from the experience the client has. So I think depending on the industry and the business, that looks different. Like, maybe that is within your CRM. Maybe that is within your POS. But wherever you can keep the human, I think we should be trying to keep the human. And if something doesn't require a human, if a human doing it does not make it better or improve it, then I guess that's an area that I feel like outsource to AI. And then alternatively, I think more people need to be asking themselves, "How is AI changing the lives of consumers, and what do I need to shift about my business, my marketing, to, to win at that?" Because so many business owners, like the chatter I'm seeing is like, how do I use AI? How do I use AI?" And it's like, you, you guys, your customers and clients are also being forced to use it, and I don't think enough people are asking themselves like, "Well, how are they using it, and what does that mean I might need to shift?" Whether that's the way that you're writing and sending your emails, whether that's the way you're structuring your website, whether that's, like, all these other things. I think people are way too excited and interested in how can I use it for marketing, for copy, for design, whatever, and ultimately we need to be thinking about both.

Sam @ Nomad Copy

The message I've been seeing a lot of recently is that it's not that using AI is helping people work less but produce more, I think that that's an interesting facet of the conversation is that, like, but is what you are creating, does it have longer legs? Is it getting better reach? Is it connecting with your people on a deeper level in that, like, is it creating community, or is it simply automating a task that didn't need to be done or should've been done better in the

Kaili

Yeah, 100%. I have a friend who works in AI, at a very high level, and she was saying and this is fascinating, one of the problems they're seeing is that, in these roles, like let's go to a client service role, like you're on the phone with clients, you're trying to help them, with AI creating these efficiencies in the admin, and the operations, and the tasks that require less brain space, less brain power, right? With it taking over those, people are burning out at such a faster speed because what that means is that your entire morning, your entire 9:00 to 5:00 shift then is big brain work. I relate to this because when I brought in an assistant, I say this to my assistant, I actually have two right now, and I literally feel like, "I don't know how people run full-blown businesses without help." But, there are days where I almost am like a little jealous. I'm like, I wanna go in and just like tinker with the back end of Flodesk and HoneyBook and like do some of this work that requires not less brain necessarily, but brain in a different way. Admin still requires brain, but it doesn't require as much strategy or creative thinking. When I stack three days in a row of writing top to bottom website copy, I genuinely feel like I need a vacation. I'm like, "I'm so tired. I'm so tired." And so that's something interesting with AI where it's like if it starts taking away, doing all the stuff that like we don't love doing, or not even don't love doing, it's just like feels like those little admin things that you're kind of like, "This is annoying. I don't wanna create this Zap. I don't wanna go in and do this," well then our entire day is spent doing the big brain work, and it'll be interesting to see what that does to, business owners.

Sam @ Nomad Copy

Yeah. I'll be super curious as well. I wanna wrap up, but I wanna give you an opportunity to hold the audience's hand, look deep into their eyes, and say, "If you take one thing from what I've said today, this is what it is. This is what I need you to

Kaili

Mm-hmm.

Sam @ Nomad Copy

So take my hand through the screen

Kaili

Oh, wow. One thing

Sam @ Nomad Copy

and speak to me. Tell me, tell me the one thing that is just like, "Y'all, if you don't do anything else, hear

Kaili

Mm-hmm.

Sam @ Nomad Copy

from a copywriter."

Kaili

Give me a minute. One thing I think I would say put yourself back in your business. I've seen so many people extracting their voice, their personality, so many people confusing efficiency or getting something done for getting something done better or for getting an actual result, and I'm just watching people feel like, "Oh, if I outsource all this either to a person or to AI, but mostly to AI, it's going to allow me to do all of these other things better." And I guess I would just say put yourself back in it, whether that looks like once a week don't even allow yourself to open AI and use AI, like you need an AI-free day, or if it means like, hey, start using it in ways that aren't marketing and messaging. But just put yourself back in your business. Like I wanna see more of the founders. I wanna see more stories that don't feel curated. I wanna see more like honest, ideas. Yeah, just put yourself back in.

Sam @ Nomad Copy

Yeah, absolutely. People want more of you. People buy from you. People buy things that solve unique problems in unique ways, and you're the only person who's able to

Kaili

Exactly

Sam @ Nomad Copy

Kaili, thanks for sharing your brilliance. Where can people get more of you on the internet?

Kaili

Well, thank you for having me. On Instagram, @revealstudio.co. Online www.revealstudioco.com. And I have a shop as well, which is right on my website. And if anybody is currently going, "Wait a minute, is my website set up for search and AI recommendations?" I did create a resource that you can go in and basically have it crawl your entire website, and it checks it against, many parameters. This took weeks, but it was worth it, so many parameters against sales psychology, voice, POV, non-commodity content, AI recommendation, machine readability, on-page SEO visibility. And it will crawl your site and flag anything that is not doing you service. It'll score you on red, yellow, or green. Red being like, "You need to fix this immediately." Yellow being like, "You should probably consider this." Green being, "You're doing great," and tell you exactly where the problem is and exactly how to fix it. And so that's been a tool that I built for myself because I had this feeling of like, things are changing and I got to the SEO game a little late. It's been, incredible to have

Sam @ Nomad Copy

As people have been using this, what's one of the top things that people have realized over and over is wrong with their

Kaili

Yeah. A lot of people are realizing structure and machine readability is not there. What's so funny is everyone buys these templates, right? And then you put your template in, and you replace the images, or you replace these sections. Well, if you don't go in and delete the text that the machine can read, the machine is saying, "I keep coming up with your image here. Put your image here." And people are like, "But I do have an image there." Everyone got obsessed with putting, screenshots of testimonials. Well, a machine doesn't do as good of a job at reading an image. And so what they're saying is, like, one of the top two ways to get recommended is having your proof points right next to your claim so that when a machine reads it, it goes, "Okay, Sam says she can get you X, Y, and Z," and then there's three testimonials directly after it confirming she can. Well, if those testimonials are screenshots of somebody sending you this great DM, even proving that point, a machine might not be able to draw that conclusion. And so then it's not gonna tell the person searching, like, "Hey, yeah, Sam's trustworthy. There's this proof." It might say, "Sam says she can do this, but this person proved they could."

Sam @ Nomad Copy

Hmm. So what's the solution with that? Maybe this is where they need to get the audit tool, but is it to put metadata on it so that it tells the machine what it's reading?

Kaili

to write it. You need to put it as readable text or as both.

Sam @ Nomad Copy

It just has to be text?

Kaili

It doesn't... Here's what's tricky. You just don't know what LLM somebody's using. LLMs, people assume Claude can do everything Chat can do, everything that Gemini can do. Like, it's not true. We don't know. And there's models that, like, I've never heard of. I mean, there are so many models out there, and so not everyone has the same capability, and not everyone, like, depending on what you asked it or prompted it, it might give you something different. So I'm not saying, like, throw out all your screenshots, just, like, make sure proof is listed in different ways. But yeah, I guess metadata would be one way to, see if it could circumvent that issue

Sam @ Nomad Copy

Yeah, brilliant. I named this podcast "Copy and" because it's copy and all of the other parts of marketing. It's copy and making sure that what you're writing is actually freaking readable, whether that's font size, Like, if you're using a script font, if it's readable by people who are using accessibility tools, like screen readers are not gonna be able to read that, and also readable by the AI

Kaili

Yep

Sam @ Nomad Copy

So super incredible tool. I'm stoked. I've been seeing all the people who are using it and just absolutely raving about it. So I will make sure that that's linked in the show notes. Kaili, thank you so much for being here and for sharing your

Kaili

Thank you for having me. You have a better day

Sam @ Nomad Copy

I'll do my best